Buenos dias,
Algunos propietarios responsables se han preguntado desde hace tiempo, por qué Altos de Vistamares S.A./ Administradora Altos de Cerro Azul S.A., no entablan acciones legales para cobrar la deuda de los "morosos", en lugar de subir la TSM cada rato, para completar lo que no se paga ?
La repuesta es, que si el propietario no tiene contrato con la Administradora, EL COBRO DE LA TSM NO ES LEGAL !
Hace unas semanas, unos propietarios recibieron una copia de un correo que un abogado, Rodrigo Quintero, dirigió al señor Federico Melo y sus colaboradores, fechada en Diciembre 2015.
Este abogado nos confirma con precisión, lo que nos dijo el propio abogado de Melo, Publio de Gracia, en la reunión de Enero 2013, cuando una propietaria le preguntó por qué no recuperaban la deuda en el momento que se vendía el lote o la casa del moroso? El respondió: que legalmente no se podía hacer y, habló de la TSM como una "contribución voluntaria".....
Esta información nos ayuda a entender por qué algunos propietarios pagan $35, otros $25, otros $15, y otros nada, y que la "cartera de los morosos", como legalmente no existe, no se puede recuperar.
Se debería legalizar esa situación ?
A continuación, el correo del Dr. Quintero, dirigido a:
Federico Melo K fmelok@grupomelo.com
Eduardo Jaspe L ejaspe@grupomelo.com
Paul Degracia Zarzavilla padegracia@grupomelo.com
Jorge Paredes jparedes@grupomelo.com
Franklin D Lu Wilson franlu@grupomelo.com
Mixdalia Coronado coronadom@altosdelmaria.com
Gabriel Correa gcorrea@losaltosdecerroazul.net
Ricardo Castrellon rcastrellon@altosdelmaria.com
" Señores,
Varios propietarios del residencial Los Altos de Cerro Azul, han recibido llamadas telefónicas o/y correos electrónicos de una persona llamada Mixdalia Coronado, de parte de Los Altos de Cerro Azul S.A. / Altos de Vistamares S.A., Grupo Melo, con el propósito de cobrar una suma de "mantenimiento" llamada por la dicha compañía :"Tasa de Servicio y Mantenimiento" o TSM , haciendo presiones para hacer pagar a esos propietarios.
Es de conocimiento que esa "TSM" que impuso, y pretente cobrar la compañía ya mencionada Altos de Vistamares S.A .(antiguo Promotor del residencial Altos de Cerro Azul), no tiene niguna validez legal, excepto para los propietarios, si los hay, que tienen un contrato escrito de mantenimiento con Altos de Vistamares S.A.
En efecto, sólo una Asociación de Propietarios legalmente constituida, y funcionando de acuerdo a sus Estatutos, puede, con votos mayoritarios en Asamblea de Propietarios, establecer una Cuota de Mantenimiento, en función de su presupuesto anual, aprobarla y cobrarla.
Actualmente, este proceso legal no se está usando, a pesar de ser reclamado, desde hace varios años, por los propietarios del Residencial Los Altos de Cerro Azul.
De la misma manera, el hecho de parte de algunos empleados de Altos de Vistamares S.A./ Administración Altos de Cerro Azul S.A., de amenazar con prohibir la entrada al Residencial a los familiares o amigos con permisos de entrada del propietario, o incluso el no restablecimiento del servicio de agua, es un abuso que tampoco tiene legalidad, ya que la carretera es una servidumbre para el uso de los propietarios, y el agua un Servicio Público.
Por lo tanto, es importante subrayar y entender, que el hecho de presionar, amenazar, o realizar actos de intimidación sobre una persona, para hacerla pagar cualquer suma ilegal, podría ser considerado como una forma de extorsión, delito de estafa o de apropiación indebida, delito de intimidación, o chantaje, abuso de confianza, segun el Codigo Penal, lo cual podría llevar a una situación legal complicada, ya que si se establecen esos delitos, hablaríamos de delitos penales o correccionales.
Además, considerando los elementos en nuestra posesión, no se puede descartar la posibilidad para los propietarios, de reclamar la devolución de todas las sumas indebidamente cobradas en los años anteriores.
Atentamente,
Dr. Rodrigo Quintero "
Cobro de la TSM, y morosidad
-
Jac
- Mensajes: 40
- Registrado: Jue Dic 29, 2011 6:47 pm
- Numero de Lote: 50
- Urbanización: Frente
-
colmport
- Mensajes: 92
- Registrado: Dom Ene 29, 2012 12:26 pm
- Numero de Lote: 61
- Urbanización: Torreon
Re: Cobro de la TSM, y morosidad
Friends and Neighbors:
The postings regarding the TSM collection or failure to collect, are correct. In the absence of a legally binding contract or a clause in the deed to the property mandating the payment for services rendered to us by any entity is unenforceable. Mr. Melo's company took a deadbeat owner to court a few years back and lost in its efforts to collect delinquent TSM.
Some owners have signed contracts. Some may have deeds containing the relevant deed covenants. Sadly, most do not. Many of us do pay voluntarily as we highly appreciate the level of services we receive. Many others choose to ride on the backs of those of us who are responsible and who pay our fair share, as well as the share that should be shouldered by our deadbeat neighbors. I do so willingly as I love my neighborhood and desire to see it maintained.
As to the termination of water service for nonpayment of TSM. I agree that this cannot be done as the water bill is a separate utility. Water service should be cut off from those who fail to pay their water bill. The same goes for telephone, electric, and any other utility service. I have never heard of the water bill being tied to the TSM as of this writing. There may be a means to combine the two services as a singular bill as water and garbage are combined in the City. I simply have not researched the issue as it lacks interest to me.
I also agree that limiting access to an owner to his or her property is probably illegal. The road crossing Melo's property is an easement of ingress and egress of necessity. It cannot be restricted and it cannot be expanded without the consent of all parties.
Melo may well be able to restrict access to persons other than property OWNERS as no one but the owner has a right to utilize the easement granted by Mr. Melo. The owner may not unilaterally expand his or her easement rights just as Mr. Melo cannot unilaterally constrict such rights of ingress and egress. I will leave it to Melo's legal team to define the scope of the easement of ingress and egress he granted and to act accordingly. So long as he does not attempt to block access to the owners, he is on firm legal ground to limit traffic crossing his property.
Someone raised yet again the issue of a Homeowner's Association (HOA) as the remedy for the collection of TSM. We have beat this dead horse enough. Nothing now remains but bones. The horse is dead and it has been eaten by vultures. Leave the bones alone.
No HOA created after the fact would have any more authority to levy or to collect TSM or any other fees than Melo has today. Only owners who join such a HOA would be bound by the same. I doubt freeloading deadbeats would join an organization that could compel them to pay their fair share when they currently have a free ride.
Even if 801 property owners vote to form a HOA, such an organization cannot compel the membership of the remaining 799 properties. The formation of such an entity with any legally enforceable general authority over all owners is a pipe dream. It is a waste of time of effort and of resources.
I have said repeatedly, that if any group of owners desires to meet and to exchange ideas and complaints; let them do so. I suggest, however, that our neighbors stop tilting windmills and desist in disseminating rumors that a HOA with any general authority can be created at this point and that this would solve the TSM issue. A HOA with any general authority over any but the few owners who would voluntarily join such an organization cannot be created legally under the current laws of the Republic of Panama.
Those who do not feel compelled to pay their fair share for the maintenance of our community will continue to take advantage of those of us who are willing to pay our share of what it takes to maintain our paradise as well as the share of our deadbeat neighbors. We should not pretend that some fairy princess will appear among us; waive her magic wand; and cure the greedy ills of humanity that manifest themselves among our neighbors.
I suggest that each and every one of us who are responsible owners and who pay our fair share of the maintenance fees as well as carrying our deadbeat neighbors on our backs come together to shame our deadbeat neighbors into doing the right thing. We should each write, call, visit or email one or two neighbors who feels that it is their right to benefit from the good will of others and redirect their attention. This may, or it may not, have the positive effect of changing bad behavior. Thieves will not cease being thieves unless or until they are apprehended and punished. Even then, some will state: "This is what I do. I am a criminal." Those who have no shame cannot be shamed. Tilting windmills and waiting for fairy princesses, however, will accomplish nothing.
Dr. Mark P. Ort
Casa 61, Torreon
The postings regarding the TSM collection or failure to collect, are correct. In the absence of a legally binding contract or a clause in the deed to the property mandating the payment for services rendered to us by any entity is unenforceable. Mr. Melo's company took a deadbeat owner to court a few years back and lost in its efforts to collect delinquent TSM.
Some owners have signed contracts. Some may have deeds containing the relevant deed covenants. Sadly, most do not. Many of us do pay voluntarily as we highly appreciate the level of services we receive. Many others choose to ride on the backs of those of us who are responsible and who pay our fair share, as well as the share that should be shouldered by our deadbeat neighbors. I do so willingly as I love my neighborhood and desire to see it maintained.
As to the termination of water service for nonpayment of TSM. I agree that this cannot be done as the water bill is a separate utility. Water service should be cut off from those who fail to pay their water bill. The same goes for telephone, electric, and any other utility service. I have never heard of the water bill being tied to the TSM as of this writing. There may be a means to combine the two services as a singular bill as water and garbage are combined in the City. I simply have not researched the issue as it lacks interest to me.
I also agree that limiting access to an owner to his or her property is probably illegal. The road crossing Melo's property is an easement of ingress and egress of necessity. It cannot be restricted and it cannot be expanded without the consent of all parties.
Melo may well be able to restrict access to persons other than property OWNERS as no one but the owner has a right to utilize the easement granted by Mr. Melo. The owner may not unilaterally expand his or her easement rights just as Mr. Melo cannot unilaterally constrict such rights of ingress and egress. I will leave it to Melo's legal team to define the scope of the easement of ingress and egress he granted and to act accordingly. So long as he does not attempt to block access to the owners, he is on firm legal ground to limit traffic crossing his property.
Someone raised yet again the issue of a Homeowner's Association (HOA) as the remedy for the collection of TSM. We have beat this dead horse enough. Nothing now remains but bones. The horse is dead and it has been eaten by vultures. Leave the bones alone.
No HOA created after the fact would have any more authority to levy or to collect TSM or any other fees than Melo has today. Only owners who join such a HOA would be bound by the same. I doubt freeloading deadbeats would join an organization that could compel them to pay their fair share when they currently have a free ride.
Even if 801 property owners vote to form a HOA, such an organization cannot compel the membership of the remaining 799 properties. The formation of such an entity with any legally enforceable general authority over all owners is a pipe dream. It is a waste of time of effort and of resources.
I have said repeatedly, that if any group of owners desires to meet and to exchange ideas and complaints; let them do so. I suggest, however, that our neighbors stop tilting windmills and desist in disseminating rumors that a HOA with any general authority can be created at this point and that this would solve the TSM issue. A HOA with any general authority over any but the few owners who would voluntarily join such an organization cannot be created legally under the current laws of the Republic of Panama.
Those who do not feel compelled to pay their fair share for the maintenance of our community will continue to take advantage of those of us who are willing to pay our share of what it takes to maintain our paradise as well as the share of our deadbeat neighbors. We should not pretend that some fairy princess will appear among us; waive her magic wand; and cure the greedy ills of humanity that manifest themselves among our neighbors.
I suggest that each and every one of us who are responsible owners and who pay our fair share of the maintenance fees as well as carrying our deadbeat neighbors on our backs come together to shame our deadbeat neighbors into doing the right thing. We should each write, call, visit or email one or two neighbors who feels that it is their right to benefit from the good will of others and redirect their attention. This may, or it may not, have the positive effect of changing bad behavior. Thieves will not cease being thieves unless or until they are apprehended and punished. Even then, some will state: "This is what I do. I am a criminal." Those who have no shame cannot be shamed. Tilting windmills and waiting for fairy princesses, however, will accomplish nothing.
Dr. Mark P. Ort
Casa 61, Torreon
-
iqsimons
- Mensajes: 275
- Registrado: Jue Dic 29, 2011 8:47 pm
- Numero de Lote: 89
- Urbanización: Frente
Re: Cobro de la TSM, y morosidad
Copio este correo que llegó directamente al administrador porque se pulsó responder.....
_________________________________________________________________
De: Eduardo Salazar [mailto:edusalazar@comcast.net]
Enviado el: viernes, 19 de febrero de 2016 04:27 p.m.
Para: admin@altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
Asunto: Re: Pro Altos de Cerro Azul Residencial (PACAR) Daily Digest
Dr. Ort:
For many years I had been part of this chat and even do I keep myself current of all the conversations that we share through this venue.
I never had participated in any of the conversations on this chat before, so this will be my first.
As individuals that share this small part of paradise that is call "Altos de Cerro Azul" and independent of the legality or not of an association, we should always follow our individual personal values.
I am totally supporting your idea to to awake the VALUES of those individuals that arbitrarily decided not to contribute even do they are enjoying the benefits as we all do at this time.
Eduardo A. Salazar
Centinela 214
Sent from my iPhone
Translation.
Dr. Ort:
Yo nunca he participado en ninguna de las conversaciones en este ¨chat¨ anteriormente aún así que siempre me mantengo al tanto de todas las conversaciones que compartimos en este medio desde que me registré mucho años atrás, por lo tanto está será mi primera participación.
Como individuos que compartimos este paraíso que les hemos dado el nombre de ¨Altos de Cerro Azul¨ e independiente mente de la legalidad de una asociación. Cada uno de notros siempre deberíamos seguir nuestros principios.
Yo apoyo totalmente su idea de despertar la conciencia en esos individuos que arbitrariamente decidieron no pagar el manteniendo aún así que ellos también disfrutan de los mismos beneficios que todos nosotros.
Eduardo Salazar
Centinela · 214
_________________________________________________________________
De: Eduardo Salazar [mailto:edusalazar@comcast.net]
Enviado el: viernes, 19 de febrero de 2016 04:27 p.m.
Para: admin@altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
Asunto: Re: Pro Altos de Cerro Azul Residencial (PACAR) Daily Digest
Dr. Ort:
For many years I had been part of this chat and even do I keep myself current of all the conversations that we share through this venue.
I never had participated in any of the conversations on this chat before, so this will be my first.
As individuals that share this small part of paradise that is call "Altos de Cerro Azul" and independent of the legality or not of an association, we should always follow our individual personal values.
I am totally supporting your idea to to awake the VALUES of those individuals that arbitrarily decided not to contribute even do they are enjoying the benefits as we all do at this time.
Eduardo A. Salazar
Centinela 214
Sent from my iPhone
Translation.
Dr. Ort:
Yo nunca he participado en ninguna de las conversaciones en este ¨chat¨ anteriormente aún así que siempre me mantengo al tanto de todas las conversaciones que compartimos en este medio desde que me registré mucho años atrás, por lo tanto está será mi primera participación.
Como individuos que compartimos este paraíso que les hemos dado el nombre de ¨Altos de Cerro Azul¨ e independiente mente de la legalidad de una asociación. Cada uno de notros siempre deberíamos seguir nuestros principios.
Yo apoyo totalmente su idea de despertar la conciencia en esos individuos que arbitrariamente decidieron no pagar el manteniendo aún así que ellos también disfrutan de los mismos beneficios que todos nosotros.
Eduardo Salazar
Centinela · 214
-
admin0004
- Mensajes: 141
- Registrado: Lun Abr 18, 2016 9:17 pm
- Numero de Lote: 00
- Urbanización: Fortin
Re: Cobro de la TSM, y morosidad
El siguiente correo llegó a la cuenta del administrador de este fórum. Se procede a copiarlo....
No olviden que hay un usuario y una contraseña. Además pueden entrar, según les sea más fácil, buscando bajo fórum.altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
Si no lo han hecho antes o tiene problemas, escribir a la cuenta admin@altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
___________________________________________________________
De: decw2md4@aol.com [mailto:decw2md4@aol.com]
Enviado el: sábado, 21 de mayo de 2016 11:41 p.m.
Para: admin@altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
Asunto: Cuota de Mantenimiento
Buenas Noches
Yo soy Michael Shephard Gonzalez, propietario del Lote #55 Altos del Frente, Cerro Azul. Yo estoy un poco confundido y molesto acerca de los pagos de mantenimiento. Lei hace varias semanas, un mensaje electronico, sobre la reunion de la presunta asociacion de Propietarios que hubo en Enero de este ano, aparentemente fue un fracaso, se menciona que era illegal la cantidad de dinero, que se cobra sobre el mantenimiento de las propiedades en Cerro Azul. Yo "no" tengo casa en Cerro Azul, tengo un terreno.
Lo compre con la idea de salir de la ciudad de Panama los fines de semana para disfrutar de la Naturaleza y las facilidades. Esto fue en la decada de los 90, MELO ofrecia la construccion de pequenas casas para pasar el fin de semana, por 13 mil dolares. No lo hice por que mi idea era de construir una casa mas grande en el futuro. La cuota de mantenimiento eran de 12 dolares al mes. Como puede ver, el programa de MELO era para todo el mundo en Panama, Rabiblancos, clase media y pobres.
Yo no vivo en CERRO AZUL permanentemente, por que yo tengo que pagar 50.00 Balboas de mantenimiento? Debe ser 20.00 Balboas para los duenos de LOTES . Los argumentos y quejas que leo en los correos electronicos, muchos creen que viven en Altos del Golf? y otros piensan que viven en Boca Raton, Florida. Como es la vaina? Los que se quejan tanto sobre la cuota de mantenimiento porque no me compran el LOTE #55. Mi correo Electronico es DECW2MD4@AOL.COM y acordamos un precio justo.
Michael Shephard
No olviden que hay un usuario y una contraseña. Además pueden entrar, según les sea más fácil, buscando bajo fórum.altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
Si no lo han hecho antes o tiene problemas, escribir a la cuenta admin@altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
___________________________________________________________
De: decw2md4@aol.com [mailto:decw2md4@aol.com]
Enviado el: sábado, 21 de mayo de 2016 11:41 p.m.
Para: admin@altosdecerroazulresidencial.org
Asunto: Cuota de Mantenimiento
Buenas Noches
Yo soy Michael Shephard Gonzalez, propietario del Lote #55 Altos del Frente, Cerro Azul. Yo estoy un poco confundido y molesto acerca de los pagos de mantenimiento. Lei hace varias semanas, un mensaje electronico, sobre la reunion de la presunta asociacion de Propietarios que hubo en Enero de este ano, aparentemente fue un fracaso, se menciona que era illegal la cantidad de dinero, que se cobra sobre el mantenimiento de las propiedades en Cerro Azul. Yo "no" tengo casa en Cerro Azul, tengo un terreno.
Lo compre con la idea de salir de la ciudad de Panama los fines de semana para disfrutar de la Naturaleza y las facilidades. Esto fue en la decada de los 90, MELO ofrecia la construccion de pequenas casas para pasar el fin de semana, por 13 mil dolares. No lo hice por que mi idea era de construir una casa mas grande en el futuro. La cuota de mantenimiento eran de 12 dolares al mes. Como puede ver, el programa de MELO era para todo el mundo en Panama, Rabiblancos, clase media y pobres.
Yo no vivo en CERRO AZUL permanentemente, por que yo tengo que pagar 50.00 Balboas de mantenimiento? Debe ser 20.00 Balboas para los duenos de LOTES . Los argumentos y quejas que leo en los correos electronicos, muchos creen que viven en Altos del Golf? y otros piensan que viven en Boca Raton, Florida. Como es la vaina? Los que se quejan tanto sobre la cuota de mantenimiento porque no me compran el LOTE #55. Mi correo Electronico es DECW2MD4@AOL.COM y acordamos un precio justo.
Michael Shephard