ASOCIACION DE PROPIETARIOS DEL RESIDENCIAL DE MONTAÑA LOS ALTOS DE CERRO AZUL (APREMACA)

Estimados, he leído atentamente sus posteos y quiero agradecerles, porque compartiendo sus experiencias e ideas, voy aprendiendo día a día sobre el residencial donde vivo y en qué puedo colaborar para mejorarlo.

Para los que no me conocen, mi nombre es Ezequiel Descotte y soy propietario de dos lotes y una casa en el sector Alcazar.

Dando respuesta al posteo original, me parece de muy mal gusto que se descalifique a la empresa que administra el residencial, sin siquiera tener el valor de darse a conocer. De igual manera, se agradece lo literario de la narración y de todo, algo se aprende.

Desde hace un año tengo el placer de vivir en Los Altos de Cerro Azul y me gustaría compartirles, ni más ni menos, que mi experiencia durante este año dentro del residencial, para una mejor lectura, lo separo en tres temas.

Carretera dentro del residencial:

Hace dos meses tuve la mala suerte de destruir el neumático de una de mis camionetas (equivalente a un año de pago de TSM), en un pozo imposible de ver dado que se encontraba en una loma. Por suerte para todos, ya taparon ese pozo, pero por mi experiencia del año pasado, esos arreglos no duran más de seis meses.

Me gustaría hacer mención de la falta de control hacia los proveedores externos que ingresan al residencial y el incumplimiento constante que tienen sobre nuestras normas. Esto puede deberse a que no disponen de la información adecuada e inclusive a la falta de una señalética de tránsito más exigente. Para darles un ejemplo, en reiteradas oportunidades, mientras caminaba con mis hijas, han pasado camionetas de proveedores de servicios incumpliendo la velocidad máxima de 40 km/h. Así mismo, como me toca transitar la carretera a diario, he visto frecuentemente camionetas mal estacionadas y lo peor de todo, que al circular, no respetan su carril dentro del residencial. Esto se podría resolver de una manera muy simple y no requiere de una gran inversión por parte nuestra. ¿Qué estamos esperando para ponernos en acción? ¿Que haya un accidente?

Administración Vistamares:

Mi primer contacto con la administración, como muchos de los nuevos propietarios, se remite a las oficinas dentro del complejo. No podría decir que me atendieron mal, pero tampoco recibí una inducción adecuada, ni información básica como nuevo propietario. Lo único que tuve claro desde un primer momento y porque me lo comentó el dueño anterior, es que tenía una cuota que abonar mensualmente de mantenimiento y una cuota de agua, lo cual me parece que se podría mejorar, dado que si no se informan las normas del residencial a los nuevos propietarios, ¿cómo pretendemos tener una mejor comunidad? Luego de unos meses, buscando en internet, descubrí que había un foro de propietarios en el cual me registré y fui leyendo para empaparme de conocimiento básico sobre el residencial. Hace pocos meses me enteré que había un grupo de propietarios que se reunian para charlar y organizarse a fin de mejorar el residencial, y es ahí donde tuve el placer de participar de diferentes reuniones entre propietarios y el equipo de Vistamares, quienes me parecieron buena gente y nos transmitieron las ganas de trabajar en conjunto para el beneficio de todos.

Comunicación entre propietarios y administradores:

En las reuniones que participé con el equipo de Vistamares, nos han compartido información desde mi punto de vista muy interesante, donde nos mencionaron los siguientes puntos:

- Los Altos de Cerro Azul dispone de aproximadamente 3.000 lotes, entre los cuales hay alrededor de 800 casas edificadas.

- Pagamos TSM alrededor de 1.400 propietarios, de los cuales muchos pagamos 50 dólares por lote, también hay propietarios que pagan 15 dólares, otros pagan 12 dólares y hay un grupo que se encuentra pagando solamente 3 dólares por lote y los demás son morosos. Si no unificamos un criterio en el pago del TSM, vamos a seguir sin renovarnos en los problemas.

- Si bien entiendo la "matemática simple de escuela primaria", que indica el señor Mark Ort, donde comentó que "el grupo Melo dona $500.000 por año a la operación", me gustaría compartirles la información que nos brindó Vistamares en la reunión que establecimos el día 21 de noviembre de 2017. Les preguntamos si ellos donaban dinero para el mantenimiento del residencial y nos contestaron lo siguiente: "Los gastos actuales los hacemos en base a lo que recaudamos, no a lo que deberíamos recaudar", nos indicaron que no gastan más dinero de lo que les entra (lo cual es lógico). También hicieron mención que en meses de baja recaudación, tuvieron que adelantar dinero para realizar reparaciones, pero que luego lo recuperan en el correr del año (lo cual se agradece pero estaría mejor para todos si no fuera así).

- Nos comentó el equipo de Vistamares que están interesados en colaborar con los propietarios para el beneficio del residencial y que no tienen intención de retirarse como administradores del proyecto. Además, nos hicieron saber que necesitan que trabajemos en conjunto para que la administración del proyecto sea rentable.

¿Cuál creo que es el punto de partida para comenzar a mejorar?

Una sociedad que evoluciona, es una sociedad que se renueva en sus problemas. Por consecuencia, considero que si bien es importante conocer la historia del residencial, es más importante aun comenzar a hacer que seguir diciendo.

En Los Altos de Cerro Azul residimos profesionales de diversas áreas de conocimiento y considero que si aportamos un poco de nuestra materia prima, podríamos lograr avances significativos en la mejora de nuestro residencial. Ahora bien, hacerlo de manera individual hace que perdamos fuerzas y es por eso que necesitamos trabajar en equipo. La participación activa, de nosotros los propietarios, es de vital importancia. Por lo cual, debemos tomar conciencia de la repercusión que tenemos al no unificar una política a largo plazo que considere qué queremos mejorar dentro de nuestro residencial (hoy nos encontramos sumergidos en el "divide y reinarás").

Para dejar de decir y empezar a hacer, les comento cuál sería mi aporte. Mi empresa comenzó a desarrollar una plataforma informática para complejos residenciales, que se implementará en los próximos meses en complejos de España y Argentina. Como director global de la compañía, mantuve una reunión con parte del equipo de Vistamares, donde realicé una presentación de 40 slides, explicando detalladamente los diferentes módulos que contempla la plataforma. La devolución que nos dieron fue muy positiva y dado que el costo de desarrollo lo donaríamos en un 100%, se encuentran evaluando los costos de mantenimiento y en el caso de ser aprobados, existe la posibilidad que a futuro podamos implementarlo también en nuestro residencial.

A modo de resumen, les comento algunos de los problemas que nos ayudaría a resolver la implementación de la plataforma:

- La falta de comunicación, organización y toma de decisiones entre propietarios.
¿Cómo lo resolveríamos?
Contaríamos con un sistema mobile que nos permitirá participar de la toma de decisiones, desde cualquier parte del mundo, con un simple toque de pantalla.

- La falta de seguridad integral y deficiencia en el sistema de acceso al residencial.
¿Cómo lo resolveríamos?
La plataforma proveería al personal de seguridad la información de los proveedores externos, que estarían autorizados por los propietarios y la administración para ingresar al residencial. También contaría con un sistema de alertas que nos permitiría informar incidentes, registrándolos con sus respectivas fotos y ubicación. Por otra parte, contaría con un sistema de pánico que presionando un simple botón, comunicaría a los vecinos y a la garita, que está sucediendo una emergencia.

- La falta de conciencia de algunos propietarios a la hora de abonar su cuota mensual y el pago de agua.
¿Cómo lo resolveríamos?
A través de diferentes alertas push que llegarían al celular de los propietarios, e inclusive, se podrían realizar los pagos por este mismo medio.

Estos puntos los mencioné a modo de resumen, la plataforma cuenta con otros módulos de gran utilidad.

En los últimos 18 años vi en primera persona cómo, a través de la tecnología, hemos organizado a los departamentos de diferentes multinacionales. Varios de los problemas con los que se enfrentan a diario, tienen que ver con la comunicación y organización entre sus diferentes colaboradores, ¿les suena familiar? Al relevar y analizar las diferentes problemáticas, nos hemos dado cuenta que al contar con procesos organizativos claros, y a través de la tecnología, se puede organizar a miles de personas hacia el bien común.

Por último, considero que una buena manera de avanzar, es ponernos de acuerdo en las políticas a largo plazo que queremos para nuestro residencial, serán, ni más ni menos, la columna vertebral de nuestro proyecto. Todos podemos participar de varias maneras:

- Seguir sin hacer nada y esperar a que otro resuelva.
- Seguir quejándose y llamar soñadores a los que queremos hacer algo.
- O simplemente tomar conciencia de la incidencia que tenemos como propietarios y empezar a creer para comenzar a ver resultados.

Saludos y buenos días.





English version


I have read your posts carefully and I want to thank you, because by sharing your experiences and ideas, I am learning day by day about the residential where I live and how I can collaborate to improve it.

For those who do not know me, my name is Ezequiel Descotte and I own two lots and a house in the Alcazar sector.

Answering the original post, I find it of very bad taste to disqualify the company that manages the residential, without even having the courage to post. In the same way, I appreciate the literary narrative and, from everything, something can be learned.

For the past year I have had the pleasure of living in Los Altos de Cerro Azul and I would like to share with you, my experience during this year in the residential, for a better reading, I separate it into three themes.

Road inside the residential:

Two months ago I had the bad luck to destroy the tire of one of my trucks (equivalent to one year of payment of TSM), in a pot hole impossible to see since it was on a hill. Luckily for all, they already covered that hole, but from my past year experience, those arrangements won't last more than six months.

I would like to mention the lack of control towards the external suppliers that enter the residential and the constant breach that they have about our rules. This may be due to the lack of adequate information and even the lack of more demanding traffic signs. To give you an example, on repeated occasions, while walking with my daughters, trucks of service providers have passed by ignoring the maximum speed of 40 km/h. Also, as I have to transit the road every day, I have often seen badly parked trucks and worst of all, that when driving, they do not respect their lane inside the residential. This could be solved in a very simple way and does not require a large investment on our part. What are we waiting for to take action? That there is an accident?

Vistamares Administration:

My first contact with the administration, like many of the new owners, takes place in the offices within the complex. I could not say that they treated me badly, but I also did not receive an adequate induction, nor basic information as a new owner. The only thing that I had clear from the start, and because the previous owner told me, was that I had a monthly maintenance fee and a water fee, which is something I think could be improved, given that if they do not report the rules of the residential to the new owners, how do we pretend to have a better community? After a few months, searching the internet, I discovered that there was a forum of owners in which I registered and I was reading to soak up basic knowledge about the residential. A few months ago I found out that there was a group of owners that met to talk and organize in order to improve the residential, and that's where I had the pleasure of participating in different meetings between owners and Vistamares team, who seemed like good people and they transmitted the desire to work together for the benefit of all.

Communication between owners and administrators:

In the meetings that I participated with the Vistamares team, they have shared very interesting information, from my own point of view, where they mentioned the following points:

1. Los Altos de Cerro Azul has approximately 3,000 lots, among which there are around 800 houses built.

2. About 1,400 owners pay TSM, of whom many pay 50 dollars per lot, there are also owners who pay 15 dollars, others pay 12 dollars and there is a group that is paying only 3 dollars per lot and the others refuse to pay. If we do not unify a criteria in the payment of the TSM, we will continue without renewing ourselves in the problems.

3. Although I understand the "simple mathematics of elementary school", indicated by Mr. Mark Ort, where he commented that "the Melo group donates $ 500,000 per year to the operation", I would like to share the information that Vistamares gave us in the meeting that we established on November 21, 2017. We asked them if they donated money for residential maintenance and they answered the following: "The current expenses are based on what we collect, not what we should collect", they indicated that they do not spend more money than they get (which is logical). They also mentioned that in months of low collection, they had to advance money to make repairs, but then recover it in the course of the year (which is appreciated but would be better for all if it were not).

4. We were told by the Vistamares team that they are interested in collaborating with the owners for the benefit of the residential and that they do not intend to retire as project administrators. In addition, they let us know that they need us to work together to make the project administration profitable.

What do I think is the starting point to start improving?

A society that evolves is a society that is renewed in its problems. Consequently, I consider that although it is important to know the history of the residential, it is even more important to start doing rather than to continue saying .

In Los Altos de Cerro Azul professionals from different areas of knowledge live and I believe that if we contribute a little of our raw material, we could achieve significant progress in improving our residential. Now, doing it individually means that we lose strength and that is why we need to work as a team. Active participation, from us owners, is of vital importance. Therefore, we must become aware of the repercussion that we have by not unifying a long-term policy that considers what we want to improve within our residential (today we are submerged in the "divide and reign").

To stop saying and start doing, I tell you what my contribution will be. My company started developing a computer platform for residential complexes, which will be implemented in the next months in complexes in Spain and Argentina. As the global director of the company, I had a meeting with part of the Vistamares team, where I made a presentation of 40 slides, explaining in detail the different modules that the platform contemplates. The feedback they gave us was very positive and given that the development cost we would donated 100%, they are evaluating the maintenance costs and if approved, there is a possibility that in the future we can also implement it in our residential.

As a summary, I mention some of the problems that would help us solve the implementation of the platform:

- The lack of communication, organization and decision making between owners.
How would we solve it?
We would have a mobile app that will allow us to participate in decision making, from anywhere in the world, with a simple touch of the screen.

- The lack of integral security and deficiency in the residential access system.
How would we solve it?
The platform would provide security personnel with information from external providers, which would be authorized by the owners and the administration to enter the residential. It would also have a system of alerts that would allow us to report incidents, registering them with their respective photos and location. On the other hand, it would have a panic system that by pressing a simple button, it would communicate to the neighbors and to the entrance sentry box, that an emergency is happening.

- The lack of awareness of some owners when paying their monthly fee and water payment.
How would we solve it?
Through different push alerts that would reach the owners cell phone, and even, payments could be made through this same platform.

I mention these points as a summary, the platform has other very useful modules.

In the last 18 years I saw first hand how, through technology, we have organized the departments of different multinationals. Several of the problems that they face on a daily basis, have to do with communication and organization among their different collaborators, does it sound familiar? By surveying and analyzing the different problems, we have realized that by having clear organizational processes and through technology, thousands of people can be organized for the common good.

Finally, I believe that a good way to move forward, is to agree on the long-term policies we want for our residential, which will be the backbone of our project.

We can all participate in several ways:

- Continue doing nothing and wait for others to resolve.
- Continue complaining and call dreamers to those of us who want to do something.
- Or simply become aware of the impact we have as owners and start believing to start seeing results.

Greetings and have good day.

I wish to applaud the insights and ideas posited by Ezequil. If we all pitch in with our ideas, we will maintain and even improve our community.

I also wish to provide the information to everyone on the forum that I provided to Leslie some time ago. Leslie also asked me how I derived the deficit number I have cited. Let me explain how I derived the number posited.

I obtained a spreadsheet form the Administration that listed every lot in the development. This spreadsheet also listed the status of the TSM payments for each and every lot as of August 2017.

I took the total number of lots that were listed as current in the payment of TSM as of the date of the spreadsheet. I multiplied that number of lots that were paid by the current monthly TSM. I did not count the fact that many owners pay far less than the currently charged fee. If the lot was listed as having paid, I counted that lot.

By multiplying the number of lots for which TSM was paid in full by the full amount currently charged, I derived a number that I used as my baseline.

I then took the last balance sheet provided by the administration that listed income and expenses. I subtracted the number I obtained by multiplying lots paid in full by the TSM from the expenses listed. The result was a deficit of approximately $500,000.

With this said, I am not an accountant. I had no access to the actual documents used to create the spreadsheet listing the TSM payment status of every lot in the development. Consequently, I had o ability to discern the actual amount collected, however, I doubt that the amount collected exceeded the total number of lots paying multiplied by the current TSM.

I also had no access to the actual receipts for al expenses listed in the balance sheet. I took the number provided by the Administration as the amount expended as a real number.

Thus, there are either far more payments being made than the administration lists on its spreadsheet portraying the TSM payment status of each lot or the expenses were $500,000 less than listed on the balance sheet. Another explanation could well be that some creative accountant has mathematical skills far exceeding my own.

I only laid out estimates based on the information provided by the Administration as food for thought. The thought necessary is that we must have a far firmer grasp on the actual amounts of money collected and the actual expenses to operate the community before we assume this responsibility with no back up. My point is this: before any entity other then the Melo organization incurs the obligation to manage and operate Altos de Cerro Azul; a very good accountant should VERY thoroughly review the books so as to verify the actual income and the actual expenses. We do not want to be left "holding the trick bag..."

If the Melo organizations in fact spend only what they collect and only loan money to the Administration on an as needed basis pending future payment of TSM; so be it. As Ezequil stated, that would be a wise business practice that a HOA could not avail itself of as none of us has the capacity to loan the HOA money pending later possible collections.

I also want to know where Ezequil bought his replacement tire so I can avoid this vendor. I have never paid in excess of $600.00 for a single tire for any automobile, motorcycle, light truck or ATV! I bought tires a month ago and I paid approximately $150 per tire and not the $600 plus he apparently paid to replace a tire injured by one of our endemic pot holes.

Mark P. Ort
Casa 61, Torreon

Estimado Mark, contestando a su pregunta, le recomiendo que si no quiere pagar 490 dolares por neumático, nunca se compre un Porsche. Para colmo de males, no me queda otra que comprar el neumático en la concesionaria oficial dado que me amenazan con perder la garantía. De ahora en más, para todos lados con mi Hilux.

Volviendo al tema, debo decir que coincido plenamente en que antes de hacernos cargo como propietarios de la administración del complejo, debemos realizar una auditoría certera de todos los gastos e ingresos del residencial. No obstante, considero, que por más que formemos una asociación, no estamos capacitados para recibir la administración del complejo. Por lo que tengo entiendido, la constitución de la asociación no implicaría tener que hacernos cargo de la administración, sino, que sería para tener entidad jurídica y empezar a tomarnos las cosas un poco más en serio. Si la constitución de la asociación nos obligara automáticamente a hacernos cargo de la administración, desde mi punto de vista tampoco no sería una opción viable.

Si bien hace 18 meses que resido en Los Altos de Cerro Azul, hace solo 5 meses que empecé a participar de las charlas que se realizan en APREMAC. Debido a las reuniones que participe con APREMAC y Vistamares, he notado que hay problemas que se vienen arrastrando desde hace mucho tiempo y que según mi parecer, radican principalmente en la falta de comunicación y en la no convocatoria de los propietarios para participar de reuniones que nos ayuden a mejorar como comunidad. Para empezar a mejorar, no solo es necesario constituir una asociación, sino, unirnos como propietarios, aportar nuestro tiempo, conocimiento, ideas e inclusive algo de dinero. De lo contrario, no podemos pretender que aportando sólo 50 dólares por mes, y siendo sólo el 50% de la totalidad de propietarios los que realmente pagan el TSM, algo pueda llegar a mejorarse.

Con un poco de orden e interés, podemos lograr grandes cosas. De mi parte, seguiré trabajando para aportar mi experiencia en la planificación de desarrollos informáticos, con la expectativa de poder contribuir con una solución a la falta de comunicación entre los actores principales del residencial (propietarios, administración, proveedores externos, seguridad, etc.).

Saludos a todos.


English version:


Dear Mark, answering your question, I recommend that if you do not want to pay 490 dollars per tire, never buy a Porsche. To make matters worse, I have no choice but to buy the tire at the official dealership because they threaten to take away my warranty. From now on, everywhere with my Hilux.

Returning to the subject, I must say that I fully agree that before taking over of the administration of the complex as owners, we must conduct an accurate audit of all residential expenses and income. However, I believe that, even though we form an association, we are not qualified to receive the administration of the complex. For what I have understood, the constitution of the association would not imply having to take charge of the administration, but rather, it would be to have a legal entity and start taking things a little more seriously. If the constitution of the association would automatically force us to take charge of the administration, from my point of view it would not be a viable option either.

Although I have been living in Los Altos de Cerro Azul for 18 months, it's only 5 months ago that I began to participate in the talks that take place at APREMAC. Due to the meetings I participated with APREMAC and Vistamares, I have noticed that there are problems that have been dragging on for a long time and that, in my opinion, are mainly due to the lack of communication and the failure of the owners to participate in meetings that help us improve as a community. To begin to improve, not only is it necessary to form an association, but to unite as owners, contribute our time, knowledge, ideas and even some money. Otherwise, we can not pretend that by contributing only 50 dollars per month, and being only 50% of the totality of owners who actually pay the SST, something can be improved.

With a little order and interest, we can achieve great things. From my part, I will continue working to contribute my experience in the area of computer development planification, expecting to be able to contribute with a solution to the lack of communication between the main actors of the residential (owners, administration, external suppliers, security, etc.).

Greetings to all.